Bulletin Board

This bulletin board is divided into the following sections -

• Club Messages
• Have your say
• Contacts

Club Messages is a forum for local clubs to pass on information.
The Croydon Carrom Club would like to invite all carrom players to a tournament on Sunday 25th September 2005. The venue is Ruskin House at the corner of Coombe Road and Park Lane in Croydon. It is also known as the Croydon Labour Club. Registration is at 10:30 am. The fee is £8.00 plus an additional £2.00 if you want food. Played to UKCA rules (no backshots) and to the Swiss System tournament format i.e. all entrants will get a game in each of the five rounds.

Have your say enables you to send an e-mail to Bob who will then edit your message before it appears here. Please note - Unless specifically requested not to do so, your e-mail address may be passed on to other carrom players. Current message groups are -

• Carrom Clubs
• Carrom in Ldn & Sth East
• Carrom in The North
• Carrom in Wales/South West
• Carrom in Scotland
• Carrom Equipment
  
• Rankings
• Rules
• Site Comments
  

Carrom Clubs
041124(1) Hi David, i hope u can help me plz, is there any Carrom Club in BIRMINGHAM area in ur knowledge. If yes, where, if not where can i play carrom? because i love to play carrom and whats the other options? plz email me info on janooson@yahoo.com Waiting for ur reply Thanks for reading this email (Shaz Birmingham)
041124(2) reply to 041124(1) Sorry Shaz, there are no UKCA carrom clubs in the Birmingham area. Although, there are lots of carrom players up and down the country, most of them don’t bother about clubs and play amongst friends at home. I’ve tried to get a directory of players going but not many have registered. Cheers (David)
041127 reply to 041124(2) Hello its shaz here again, thanks for reply, As u said there is no carrom club in Bham area, Can i plz discuss the other option to set one up in Birmingham area and i would like to be registered in directory of players. my details are Mr A Shaz, Birmingham, Phone 07837 363160, Email janooson@yahoo.com, If u require any further details plz dont hesitate in contacting me. I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM U SOON. Bye (Shaz)
041128 reply to 041127 Hi Shaz, I've set you up on the directory of UK players. If you want to change any assumptions I've made please let me know.
With regard to setting up a club in the Birmingham area that would be great. Unfortunately, the UKCA doesn't have sufficient financial resources to get you going. Also, Richiard White, who manufactures the polished boards under the trade name of "Make Believe", is no longer in a position to provide boards with massive discounts for setting up clubs as he is thinning down his operation and intends to do some global travelling with his partner and son.
So what can you do to get off the ground? I would -
1) Get one or two other carrom enthusiasts together,
2) Start by playing in each other's houses on your own boards,
3) Next find a suitable local venue for playing under cover, e.g. pub, club, community centre, University campus, shopping mall, or anywhere that people mill about the place,
4) Take a board down to introduce the game to the person responsible for the venue. Pubs are usually the best as landlords are keen to bring in new customers and most times will let you use the space you need for no charge. If you're lucky they may contribute to the cost of getting more boards.
5) Advertise it locally once you've got a venue. You may be able to get local businesses to sponsor your club through players wearing T-shirts displaying their business names.
6) Decide on the frequency of running the club, once a week or once a month. Initially once a week is good to get more people interested. However, most clubs tend to run once a month.
7) Spread the cost of the venue amongst the players that evening, or collect a fee from each player for playing that evening.
8) Avoid trying to set up a league in the early days. Yes, competition is always good and the best initial approach is a ladder. I can send you details if you wanted.
Good luck in setting up your club. Let me know how you get on and I'll advertise it on our website. Cheers (David)

040627(1) Hi David, I am Raja Narravulla. I live in Huddersfield, West Yorkshire. I love carroms. My nationality is india. I came to UK 2 years ago. When Ii was in India, Iwas champ of my college. I describe myself as an excellent player in carroms. I would like to participate in competitions. Could you please let me know if there are any competitions near or around Huddersfield? and could you please let me know the process?. Cheers (Raja Narravulla)
040627(2) reply to 040627(1) Hi Raja, In the UK, carrom is played under three sets of rules -
UKCA - (UK Carrom Association), website www.carromuk.org.uk I assume you got my address from this site. We play on polished boards (without powder) and no backshots. We are not averse to playing other styles and on other types of boards. Unfortunately, we don't have any clubs local to Huddersfield, although, carrom enthusiasts have tried to get things going in Yorkshire. The main concentration of players, clubs and competitions seems to be around the London area. A suggestion is place your name on the directory of carrom players and see what response you get from local players.
UKCF - (UK Carrom Federation). They play on boards requiring powder and include backshots. Krishan Sharma is the person to contact from that federation.
Of course there are lots of carrom players in the UK who were introduced to the game through their parents and friends but don't belong to any club. They just enjoy the game amongst friends at home. Keep an eye on our website for competitions down south. You would be most welcome to enter. Cheers (David)

040304(2) Carrom club organisers if you need more boards have a look at message 040304 under Carrom Equipment.

040201 Please inform Andrew I'd be interested in developments at Leeds. Although I couldn't commit myself weekly. I'd try and get over when I could. (Mike Kelly)


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Carrom in Ldn & Sth East


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Carrom in The North
040726 Hi David, I have been in this country for 11 months and looking for a carom club. I stumbled upon the carom site by chance and found your ID to look for help. I live in Leeds (West Yorkshire). Could you please let me know the clubs or introduce me to players in this area? Thanks, (Nilesh Keshkamat)
040727 reply to 040726 Hi Nilesh, Sorry for the delay, I've been on holiday. Not sure if any carrom clubs in Leeds have got off the ground but here are some email addresses of carrom players in your neck of the woods. (email addtresses provided but not displayed here) Cheers (David)


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Carrom in Wales/South West

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Carrom in Scotland
040110 Hi, sometime ago there was a message from a person leaving in Aberdeen (Scotland) looking for carrom players. Could you pass her/him my e-mail since I am also looking for other players. Cheers, (Marco)
040110(2) reply to 040110 Done (David)

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Carrom Equipment
050328 Hi David: Saw your site while visiting my brother on Exmoor - very nice. I'm from Salt Spring Island off the west coast of Canada, where we have a small but very keen group of carrom players. One of us picked up the game while in India.
We have been in a bit of a vacuum regarding equipment and rules, but use the federation rules, except for (i)no backshots, and (ii) the last man must be pocketed only after the striker rebounds off a side.
A few questions. (i) We have Indian varnished wooden boards of varying quality and use a pink powder (probably boric?). It is expensive, and I see that some advocate potato starch or talc, while others don't use any powder. We play with a powdered surface that gives the striker five or even six rebounds when struck hard on an empty board. Is this usual? Can you get this kind of speed without powder or with talc or potato starch? We use an acrylic striker with wooden pieces.
Another issue that has arisen relates to flick versus push. One of our group has become a stickler and accuses others of pushing. The Int Fed rules say that a push is when the elbow jerks forward. This doesn't happen for us, but it seems that with some styles there is a small movement of the wrist. The finger can flick by pivoting at the base of the finger, so the wrist doesn't move, but with some flicks there is a small movement of the wrist as well, even though the heel of the palm sits on the raised edge of the board and doesn't move forward. We do not see this as violating the rule regarding flick and push. Is this an issue anywhere else? How is a push defined/interpreted?
I hope that this isn't too much trouble and that you can clear these issues up or direct us to someone who can. Thanks for any help, and best regards, (Alan Martin) PS: Any players in the Bristol/bath area?
050329 reply to 050328 Hi Alan, It's nice to know the different variations played. For your last man to be pocketed, is it only the striker that has to rebound or can it be the piece rebounding but not the striker?
One variation that I used to play as a schoolboy in Burma was that we never covered the queen but it had to be the last piece to be pocketed via a rebound, striker or queen off the top on its own or including any other side but not the side on its own.
I can get five rebounds on my polished boards at home. I have seen seven rebounds on a polished board but you would never want to flick your striker that hard. You lose accuracy or pieces may fly off the board.
Having said that you need as little friction as possible. This will allow the furthest travel distance with the least force. With the striker having a bigger surface area and heavier than a piece it should travel a slightly shorter distance than the piece, so if you don't flick the striker too hard it won't follow the piece into the pocket. Well that's my theory any way.
The pieces we use on the polished boards are advertised as resin pieces. We also use wooden pieces but they don't slide as far.
In Burma the powder we used was French chalk. I wouldn't advise using boric powder as it is toxic. This powder floating around in a confined space with children about is not ideal. The pink powder you use is probably microscopic balls. I think you can get this from Carrom Shop
I interpret a push as a movement of the wrist or hand. You will notice that you can move the skin at the base of the palm of your hand at least 5 mm. Although the base of your hand is not lifted when you play a shot it can be jerked forward at least 5 mm including the elbow. I call this a push.
In local games/tournaments nobody would be so pedantic. However, before playing in a national/international tournament I would seek clarification from the referee.
For players in the Bristol/Bath area - There are two listed on the website under the directory of players in the UK area, Steve Wilkinson and Vijay Lugade. It includes their phone numbers and email addresses. There are others but they have asked me not to pass on their contact details. Try emailing Simon Jones who has recently moved to the Bath area and is trying to set up a club. Cheers (David)
050331 reply to 050329 Hi David: Thanks for the speedy response. In answer to your question about how we end games: the striker must rebound before hitting the piece to be pocketed. I think this came from somewhere in northern India.
Regarding powder, we do use the pink powder from carromshop.com (the more expensive kind) but the label doesn't say what it's made of, though it is made to "Japanese specifications"! It works well but is expensive. Does the much cheaper potato starch work well?
Thanks for your interpretation of the push versus flick. Yes, I agree that a 5mm jerk of the elbow would definitely be classified as a push. The situation we are talking about is more subtle and doesn't involve any movement of the elbow - clearly not a push. Regarding pieces, where could I get championship grade pieces - would they be ceramic or resin as opposed to wood?
Another item that may be of interest to your website bulletin readers is a one person variation (solitaire?) of the game that we have come up with. Nine pieces (no red) are arranged in the centre of the board as follows: one piece in the centre surrounded by six others in a standard hexagonal pattern with one corner pointing to the direction of the striking side. The other two pieces are placed at either side of the piece most distant from the striker, forming an arrowhead pointing to the striker. The aim is to clear the board in as few shots as possible, finishing with a direct hit as opposed to the rebound we require in a game with two or more people. This is very useful as a warm-up or practice and can be used competitively by different players taking turns to clear the board. At our level a score in the low teens is very good, while we cut off at 30 shots for poorer players (or good players having a bad day).
Thanks again for your help. I'd be interested in hearing from other experienced players as we have no contact with anyone outside our small group. Best regards, (Alan Martin)
050401 reply to 050331 Hi Martin, Because I don't use powder on my board I've no idea how effective the potato starch is.
I don't think you need to buy championship grade pieces. If you entered an ICF organised competition you would play on powdered boards with wooden pieces. If in a UKCA competition it would more than likely be on polished boards with resin pieces, but sometimes we use powdered boards with wooden pieces. The important thing in championship tournaments is the shape of the pockets. They have to be rounded inwardly and not have the frame edges around the pockets at right angles.
Regarding solitaire, I have described on our website eight exercises for players without opposition. I have also suggested a method of gauging the level of expertise of a player by playing with a full set of pieces, on their own, in any order, following standard rules and how many shots it takes to clear the board. I use this gauge in our Directory of Players in the UK
Under 20 shots Master
Under 30 shots Excellent
Under 40 shots Good
Under 50 shots Average
Over 50 shots Novice
I would not try and get used to playing solitaire with nine pieces as there will be less pieces blocking your path to the pocket. This might be fine to practice your end game, but you will be out of practice to cope with more pieces blocking your path to the pockets at the start of a normal game. Cheers (David)

040304 Richiard White has asked me to display this message -
As from 1st April 2004 Richiard White will no longer be trading under the name of Karum. However, once the new workshop has been established and new designs developed we will still be manufacturing high quality non-powder carrom boards and trading under the name of Make Believe. There will be a delay in restarting production as we shall have to move and set up a new workshop. It will be several months before we are back in production, depending on how quickly we sell the house. There will also be a new website.
Thank you to all my past customers and I look forward to producing more top quality boards for my new customers. (Richiard)
If you run a carrom club or are considering setting up one then it will be worth your while to contact him.


040309 reply to 030829 Dear David, All our boards have rightangled corners, and have noticed with many other tournament boards that they are not inwardly rounded. I personally prefer rightangle, what's your opininion? (CarromPaul-CAUK)
040315 reply to 040309 Sorry CarromPaul for stating that CAINT tournament carrom boards had to have inwardly rounded corner pockets. This applies only to UKCA and ICF tournament boards.
I am now used to the inwardly rounded corner pockets and prefer them, as the size of the pocket opening is slightly larger because of the cutaway to form the rounded corner.
I am not against entering tournaments that use boards with right-angled corners, provided all the boards are the same and not a mixture of rounded and right-angled. Cheers (David)



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Rankings

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Rules
041118 David I have a doubt. In a doubles play both the opponents have one coin to finish, and if the opponent in an attempt to pocket his coin ends up pocketing the striker first and secondly his coin on the same shot, does he have to put back the coin on board ?? or he wins the game?? Looking forward for ur answer. (Riaz)
041118(2) reply to 041118 Hi Riaz, No he doesn’t win. Rule H12 states it’s a penalty for pocketing the striker, so the due is one offending player’s piece. Also rule H8 states that other than the queen, any improperly pocketed pieces remain pocketed unless it is the last piece of either player. So in this case two pieces of the offending player have to be placed on the board. Cheers David

The next few messages were initiated after CarromPaul of CAUK decided to amend his CAINT rules following his October 2003 tournament when the UKCF British Team made a clean sweep of the prizes. Their style of play was an eye-opener to some, as from the first break they were ensuring that the opponent's pieces were positioned behind the striking lines.

040308 I see the dilemma - it's quite a tricky one. It's a pity gentlemen cannot behave as such. I well remember a test match when a certain Australian bowler, bowled the last over to the England batsmen underarm, to prevent them scoring the winning runs. It was a disgusting display and both sides boo-ed it.
While waiting for your ruling, here's how we have reasoned the problem (Shirenewton Law):
(1) Placing your opponent's coin behind his base line is a fine tactic and should remain part of the game, only in the positive sense where it results (intentionally or unintentionally) of a successful pocketing either of your own coin or the red queen in the normal run of play. This requires considerable skill and we think it's worth retaining.
(2) If, however, one of your opponent's men ends up behind his base line (intentionally or unintentionally) and there is no successful pocketing, we call this 'one foul'. One of yours is returned to the outer circle along with the opponents 'behind the base line coin' and both are placed by the opponent to his best advantage. This seems to work well, retains the skilled aspect of the tactic and penalises any negative play. What do you think? (William SH)
040309(1) reply to 040308 Tried the Shirenewton Ruling on Sunday, it seemed to work, will try out for a couple of weeks yet, before committee gives final ruling.
Have sent a copy to the UKCA for their advice.
I do believe that any opponent's piece put DIRECTLY behind their line,
a) cannot stay there,
b) putting it back in front of the opponent's line in next shot/shots, helps by taking up the fouler's turns in doing this but can mess up the positions,
c) By putting the fouled piece back in centre by the opponent seems to work and advantages the opponent as it should do. (CarromPaul)
040309(2) reply to 040309(1) What we are having to do is think through all the ways in which the un-gentleman might behave. Great shame but there are people who think like this. Forcing the opponent to use his shot to recover the players piece may lead to other forms of ungentlemanly behaviour. Such as disturbing other pieces to his advantage, moving another piece behind his opponent’s baseline, moving the red queen into a more advantageous position, and so on. Each instance will require yet another ruling. How many attempts to recover the piece do you allow him? If he is a total cad he may strike hard, claiming that he is trying to recover the piece, and upset the whole board position. You could disqualify for this but it will leave bitterness.
I'm not trying to sell it, but The Shirenewton Law makes it all very simple and removes all motivation to behave badly. It also acknowledges the considerable skill involved in the tactic of pocketing one of your own pieces, whilst at the same time moving an opponent’s piece behind his baseline. I think this is skilful, elegant, and legitimate.
Love to know what the UKCA thinks. (William)
040309(3) reply to 040309(2) Shirenewton Law is better but still would like to try it out physically for a couple of weeks.
2002 competition seemed to be all gentleman and nothing like this happened despite the prizes.
In 2003 When certain members of the British Team decided to play with bad manners the rule had to be brought in preventing this in future years, so that the last rounds are exciting.
Apparently this does not happen with UKCA, but the introduction of the first Prize money last year, may change this. So I don't know if I have done the correct thing by sponsoring the prize. Depends whether UKCA want to keep their tournaments Amateur like Rugby was for years or go in the Professional direction and land up like the Football is today !? (CarromPaul)
040313 reply to 040309(2&3) I haven’t spoken to any other UKCA member but as far as I’m concerned this is part of the game.
If a player wants to waste his shot by concentrating on sending your pieces behind your striking lines instead of pocketing his pieces then it’s up to him. I would only use that tactic when I’m several pieces down and I would go one stage further and not just get his piece behind his striking lines but on it. This means he has less positions to place his striker on his striking lines. There is no such thing as UN-gentlemanly behaviour. If tournament rules allow you to do it then it is legal. Players in UKCA tournaments have always used this tactic. Perhaps the UKCF British Team at Paul’s last tournament were better at it than the others.
I wouldn’t advocate changing the rules to stop using this tactic. It is very unlikely that the UKCA will change their rules to avoid this so-called ungentlemanly behaviour.
If a player is not so good and in attempting to pocket his piece fails to do so, why should he be penalised when in that same stroke he unintentionally sent his opponent's piece behind the striking lines. What happens to all those other disturbed pieces in that purported foul strike? The Shirenewton Law claims it is a foul if the piece is behind the base line, what happens if the piece is on the base line? (David)
040315(1) reply to 040313 I have not heard of this rule, by name, however in Nepal, where I learnt carrom I encountered the following rules, which I played for a number of years. It was quite a shock when I first played UKCA rules - putting my piece behind the line deliberately - very naughty! but now, UKCA rules are my preference.
Nepal Rules opponent puts my piece behind line - opponent must get my piece `up` before he can pocket one of his pieces.
Also: Queen can only be pocketed at end of game (and must be followed by last piece) but if you pocket your last piece before the queen it is a 7 piece foul.
There are so many rules out there - enjoy them all - and play a variety - afterall, that is the spice of life. (Stephen - Chairman UKCA)
040315(2) reply to 040315(1) In Burma (Myanmar), where I learnt to play carrom at school, before you started a game you decided whether backshots were included or not. The rest of the rules were the same as UKCA rules, EXCEPT, there was no covering the Queen, this piece had to be the last piece to be pocketed via a rebound. Either the striker or the Queen had to rebound off the front or back frame before the Queen was pocketed into the pocket opposite the last rebound frame. Rebounding off a single side frame was not acceptable. (David)
040316 reply to 040313 See your point, David. The way you describe it is not the problem. The problem is that instead of trying to pocket pieces, some players concentrate on putting their opponent's pieces behind their baseline. This is damned boring, not in the spirit of Carrom, and has lead to bad feeling in tournaments.
Your point about on the baseline is valid. Basically if the opponent cannot play it (it constitutes a backward shot) then it is a foul (unless it got there as a result of a successful pocketing). Any other pieces disturbed stay where they are, unless they are opponent's pieces and have ended up behind the baseline. In principle, The Shirenewton Law is designed to remove all motivation for negative play and will therefore only rarely be invoked. (William)

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Site Comments
050328 Hi David: Saw your site while visiting my brother on Exmoor - very nice. (Alan Martin) Visiting Canadian player.

020928 Hi David, thanks very much for your great site. (Karen) Note message continued under Carrom Boards/Powder.

020913(1) David, may I suggest that the additional details (or new details) which are included in the website updates be highlighted with some other colour than the present red - it blends with the background brown and hardly visible with the naked eye. (Bharat)
020913(2) reply to 020913(1) Bharat, thanks for pointing out the viewing problem. It doesn't show up as a problem on my monitor.
When I first designed the website what I was trying to achieve was a view of the screen that looked like a carrom board i.e. a dark wood coloured frame around the outside and a light wood colour background. However, I soon realised that viewers want to see good content and not flashy gizmos and wasted space. This is why the dark frame background never got passed the drawing board and the dark strip down the left is all that remains.
I also realised that not all computers are to the same specification level and colours have to be chosen from a narrow band. That is why I couldn't use a light wood with a wood grain effect. I also followed the unwritten standard colours that exist when displaying data. Black for normal text, blue for unused links and red for used links. That is why I didn't notice the problem as the links were blue but after use they changed to red.
Anyway getting back to your point. To change all the links colour would be a major effort. So what I have done is change the background colour of where the biggest problems are i.e. the initial splash page which highlights the latest changes to the website, and the column of names/email addresses on the Directory of Players.
I wish more viewers were as observant as you and highlight problems or suggestions for improvements. Cheers (David)

020510 Well done with carrom.org.uk ... how did you draw the big board on the homepage ? (Marco Herbst)
020512 reply to 020510 The big board on our splash page was drawn using Fireworks from Macromedia. It wasn't intended to but has now become our logo. The board used in the Flash (Macromedia) animation was an earlier version. The large carrom pieces, with text and links to the rest of the site, shown on the home page was drawn using Fireworks and so were the navigation buttons down the left hand frame. (David)

010813 Paula and I were just browsing the web site and both enjoyed it thoroughly. Glad to see things are still alive with fresh names and venues. Best of luck for your continuing success. (Ram & Paula)
010814 reply to 010813 Good to hear from you. Its not the same without the two of you. Nobody wants to get involved anymore. (David)

010722(1) Great web site!!!! (Guy Moreton)

010401 Hi David, have a look at http://members.tripod.de/CFBGL. Greetings (Jörg)
010404 reply to 010401 Hi Jörg, I had a look at your site but, unfortunately, I don't know enough German to appreciate the information on your site. Thanks for providing a link to this site, I've set up a link to your site. Cheers (David)
010405 Hi David, thanks for your answer. Maybe I can play Carrom on Monday, 09 April, at Chiddingly during my holiday. Nice greetings from Germany. Cheers Jörg

000503 Great web site. I'll update my links as soon as I can. Are any of you joining us for the next Eurocup in Italy? I used to enjoy receiving your club's magazine is it still going? Regards to all, (Elisa Martinelli)
000504 Reply to 000503 Yes we will still have a magazine which will be called 'The Pocket'. An Acrobat Reader version is attached which I hope you can access. Cheers (David)

000501 Nice Homepage you made. I will put a link on my carrom site… (Carlito Bollin)

000429 Congratulations on the public unveiling of an exceptionally good site. It is difficult to believe it is your first. Well done… (Bottleneck)

000428 Looks really great. You're an expert… (David Cunliffe)

000419 Congratulations on the birth of a new site. I have only just looked at the website, and I am very impressed. You have clearly put a lot of effort into the production and it will act as an excellent shop-window for UKCA… (Trevor Munns)

000406 New site is really good. Well done… (Ram Chatlani)

000405(1) It looks great! Although, I would have thought that you might have placed some carrom music and some animation oh well I guess it can't have it all...... Just kidding looks good all of the URL's work fine, did you generate the graphics?? … (Mark Hetherington)

000405(2) Now had a longer look at the website and it looks great. Keep up the good work. (Peter Sweeney)

000404 Congratulations! The set-up is excellent with all useful links to other information. Well done David! (Bharat Katwa)
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Contacts. If you have any questions you would like answered then please do contact any of the UKCA committee members or local club organisers.

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